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Post by Josh on Jan 1, 2010 1:34:25 GMT -5
Following is a list up for discussion and debate. It is a list from the website Evil Bible, an atheist site that claims to "fight against immorality in religion". Debate, defend, or refute the following list as you feel necessary: ```````````````````````````````` TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. 9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. 8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. 7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! 6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. 5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. 4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." 3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. 2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. 1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.
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Post by Josh on Jan 1, 2010 10:46:05 GMT -5
I'll just point out first of all that their number one point is that atheists and agnostics know a lot more than most Christians do about the Bible, but their number 8 point on their list is basically that a Triune God is the same as believing in more than one God, which is an untrue contradiction.
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ali
New Member
Posts: 20
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Post by ali on Jan 2, 2010 3:17:25 GMT -5
This makes me so mad hahaha. I guess I'm a fundamentalist Christian.
10. This isn't anything new. Of course you deny what you don't believe in. It's logical. Atheists have they're own website attacking other religions, it's human nature to defend your beliefs and feel personally attacked when someone attacks something that you feel is so vital to your life.
9. I don't really feel insulted when someone says I came from an ape. I just don't think it's true haha.
8. Christians only believe in one God, He just has three parts? haha I'm not sure how to explain it.
7. There is such a huge difference between those two situations. Everything God does/commands is for a reason, whether we understand it or not. God never commanded his followers to kill people as a way for salvation. The murders that some Muslims are committing aren't even commanded by Allah. The Jihad isn't even a Pillar of Islam.
6. I think it's funny to think that anyone would ever believe that one of us, a human, could be a God. We're so flawed, there's just no way haha. The Bible is very clear in saying that Jesus was born of a virgin, therefore, the Holy Spirit did not have sex with Mary.
5. I don't know about this. All I know is that I believe the Bronze Age tribesmen.
4. Christianity is not the most tolerant religion by any means. There is a very clear set of rules, we all break them and until we accept Christ, we are all going to hell. It's true that we are all forgiven, but only because we are atoned by Christ. Justice has to be done, and the price has to be paid. There's nothing tolerant about it. God is not tolerant of sin at all. I'm sorry if this offends anyone but it's true.
3. Science doesn't disprove religion, it confirms it! How could a world so complex and beautiful be created by chance? There is a definite design to the world around us. As for "some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues"". God speaks in weird ways sometimes, I don't understand it, so I can't expect a non-believer to understand it either.
2. 100% of our prayers are answered. A lot of times, the answer is no. Because humans are so selfish and because we can't ever see the plan that God has for us and for the world around us, most of us don't ask for the right things. The Bible says that God works everything out for the good of those who love Him. It's not necessarily what we ask for or want, but it's what's good for us.
1. This one is partly true. It's sad but it just goes to show that what we know can't save us. As Christians, we should know more about our religion than everyone else, but knowledge doesn't save you. This "statistic" doesn't disprove Christianity because Christianity isn't based on what we know or facts we memorize, it's based on the power of God to save us.
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Post by Josh on Jan 2, 2010 10:07:06 GMT -5
Yeah these things get me ticked. But that's why I like them, which sounds weird. I like defending what I believe in against sometimes completely opposite views.
And well said, for all of them.
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Jed
Junior Member
Ruff!
Posts: 54
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Post by Jed on Jan 3, 2010 11:37:28 GMT -5
When I look at the answers I have to these 10 things, I guess I can conclude that I am not a Fundementalist Christian, but that is okay - that is not the same as one who holds on to the fundementals of Christianity ...... 10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. No, I do not feel outraged. If someone denies the existence of God that is their right - why would that make me outraged?9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. No, I do not feel insulted or dehumanized. There are all sorts of scientific views about our human existence. Some scientists actually turned Darwins theory of evolution into a religion by putting their faith into science rather than God. No matter how hard some scientists might try to take God out of the picture, it won't work.8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. No, I do not laugh at polytheist, but I do believe in a Triune God.7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! No, my face doesn't turn purple when I hear of any of these atrocities. I am not sure of which accounts regarding Allah this is speaking of, but those in the Old Testament of the Bible need to be understood properly in order for God to make sense, keeping in mind that it isn't necessarily "what it says" as much as "what it means". Sin leads to death - should we be surprised that these things happened? 6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. No, I do not laugh at Hindu and Greek because of their beliefs. That is their understanding of God now, but perhaps they will open up to the truth of the Gospel some day.5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. No, I am not concerned with the actual age of the earth because it has nothing to do with the Genesis accounts when understood properly.4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." No, I do not believe that at all. Those who will burn in Hell will be those who choose to do so. This is not for me to judge.3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. No, I do not believe that Science, History, Geology, Biology, and Physics conflict with my faith at all. Some people can twist those gifts from God and try to discount his existence, but that is a religion within itself. The term "prove Christianity" doesn't make sense to me. Christianity is the belief in Jesus - how do you prove that?2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. No, all prayers are answered - sometimes we don't realize it, sometimes it takes longer than we would like, and sometimes we don't like the answer.1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian. If that is an invitation to a duel on any 3 of those subjects, I accept.
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Post by Josh on Jan 4, 2010 13:02:56 GMT -5
Well said, Jed. (That rhymes, by the way.) It would be interesting to hear atheists' responses to these responses. Maybe when our member base expands we will have more from every side of the topic, which is the intent of the forum. Of course it is difficult to have a calm, logical conversation when there are such opposite, conflicting views, speaking from experience.
My intent for this website is to have an outlet for people of all views to discuss their beliefs with each other, logically. And to provide resources to back up your beliefs, which is something I have already been working on (the Resource Database, the link to it is on the home page). So one down, one to go. Next on the agenda: expanding the member base.
But that's all off-topic, administrative rambling... ;D haha
But I agree with all of your points.
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Post by Sandy Pines on Jan 14, 2010 15:49:18 GMT -5
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN 10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. I don't feel outraged when other people deny the existence of God because I am honestly used to it in our day's culture. Where I live it is actually pretty hard to find someone that is truly a Christian and is not faking their faith or just goes to Church because they believe that going to Church is how you will get to heaven.
I do however deny existence of any other god because I believe there is only one true God. The way I know that is because of the Bible. While talking to non-believers and I repeat the last sentence, they say "How do you actually know that the Bible is true?" Well in order to find out if the Bible is accurate, you have to study it first. The Bible has many claims that point it to being God inspired (such as the Bible stating that the earth was a sphere, when the contradiction of the day was that the earth was flat).9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. I do feel a little insulted when scientists or science followers say this, because they insult God. What some scientists and most science followers do not realize is that evolution is not considered fact. The term fact is defined in the American Heritage Dictionary as, "Something known to exist or to have happened". The scientific Law of Gravity is a fact as it is proven all the time. Micro evolution is considered fact (the evolution of genetics). The General Theory of evolution, however, is one of the most controversy theories in science we know today. We don't know evolution to be pure fact, scientists just believe it is.8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. I don't laugh at anyone's beliefs or religion as I do my best to respect all opinions. In order to make fun of Christians for believing in a Triune God, you have to know what a Triune God is. (I was saying you in general, the You was not directed toward the OP). A Triune God is not three different gods, which is what most people get confused about. A Triune God is three peoples in one. I often use the example of the three states of liquids: Gas, Water, and Ice. They are all water as they all contain water molecules, but they are in different states. This is exactly the same with the Trinity. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are the exact same person but with different purposes. 7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! I haven't read Exodus so I can't comment on much. But my hypothesis is that this was all in God's plan. Just as what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah, maybe these people were committing sinful deeds to the fullest. I'm not stating this to be true since I haven't read Exodus, though.6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. As I stated before, I try my best not to laugh at other people's beliefs. The "Holy Spirit" didn't personally impregnate Mary, as it was stated to be a "virgin birth". Yes, she gave birth to Jesus who did get killed (because it was God's plan of salvation to man), and Jesus rose on the third day just like he said he would (This was probably the proof for the unbelieving people at the time that he was God).5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. What I have personally witnessed is that most of the time Christians genuinely share their faith in what they believe, and then science followers or scientists often try to find contradictions and loop holes in Christianity, which at that point we defend our faith by returning the favor of finding loop holes in evolution and the big bang theory. While defending our faith we often get criticized for "forcing our beliefs down non believers throats". But by saying this, they are being hypocritical. Why? Because what are Christians getting forced down their throats in school? I don't see Christianity classes being a requirement to pass High School in public schools.4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." Being saved and going to heaven does not mean you "have to share your beliefs" to go to heaven. And I personally do not consider Christianity the most Loving religion (I don't consider it a religion at all, but that is an argument for a different post or thread). The gospel is offensive to people because it is telling them that they are living their lives wrong and if you don't ask for forgiveness for living your life in a sinful manner then you will end up in hell. That would be offensive to me if I wasn't already saved, honestly. But there are also loving parts about Christianity because all Christians are supposed to love their neighbor as themselves, ETC.3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. I usually ignore comments like these because they're calling our beliefs "idiotic" just to force their beliefs up and to try to force us to believe them, otherwise we're the idiots who know "nothing".2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. I don't define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. I've never seen this as a statistic for prayer in my life until now .
"You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God."
God answers prayers in three different ways: Yes, No, or Slow. 'Nuff said. 1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian. Knowing a lot about Christianity or other religions does not have anything to do with actually "being" a Christian and being saved. Although it is nice to know a lot about your own religion that saved you from hell, it isn't totally necessary. In order to be saved all you have to do is ask for forgiveness for your sins and ask for repentance and to set your life out for God. That requires hardly any knowledge.I do believe that I am a Fundamental Christian, as you can probably tell. Yeah these things get me ticked. But that's why I like them, which sounds weird. I like defending what I believe in against sometimes completely opposite views. And well said, for all of them. They don't get me too ticked (although when Athiests start becoming forceful about their beliefs, then I get really ticked LOL). But yeah, I know what you mean. I also like defending what I believe in.
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Post by Daniel on Jan 14, 2010 15:58:23 GMT -5
Sorry guys, I would love to post some of the things that you have, but I don't really have the time. I am definately a "Fundamental Christian" though
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Post by Daniel on Jan 14, 2010 15:59:18 GMT -5
O and also I will do that when I do have the time
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Post by Josh on Jan 14, 2010 23:06:37 GMT -5
Sounds good, I'll look forward to it. And good responses, Sandy Pines.
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