kepi
New Member
Posts: 9
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Heaven
Feb 3, 2010 20:34:44 GMT -5
Post by kepi on Feb 3, 2010 20:34:44 GMT -5
I would like to know: Do you believe in heaven? What do you think it is? What is hell? Does heaven seem like a good place to you?
My views: As you might know I don't really believe in this type of stuff but if heaven was really I would wish it wasn't. I would rather believe that I am living my life and making these choices because they are right. Not that every challenge that...life is just a test to see if you go to heaven.
What about you?
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Heaven
Feb 3, 2010 22:47:17 GMT -5
Post by Josh on Feb 3, 2010 22:47:17 GMT -5
I certainly do believe in heaven. It is the eternal reward we get for essentially following God's will. Hell is the opposite; eternal punishment. This is if one rejects all that is good, all that God created, and follows the way of evil. It was their own choice to choose Hell if that is their sad result... I haven't actually seen heaven or been there, so I can't say if it "seems like" a good place to me. But if it is what I believe it is, then yes, it is a perfect place. Eternal paradise and happiness. Can't ask for much more... So, if heaven is real, you wish it wasn't. If, for argument's sake, it truly is a perfect paradise as I believe it is, why would you not want it? If you are doing the right thing, then heaven is the result. No one should do the right thing just because of the reward, which is ultimately heaven, but they do it because it is the right thing to do, as you mentioned. One can't earn heaven, per se. If you are doing what is good, you are doing the will of God, and if that is the case, heaven will be the result. As a Christian who believes in heaven, I don't do what is good solely because doing good might "get" me to heaven. (Although, faith without works is dead, and vice versa, so "works" alone cannot "earn" heaven for anyone) You make a good point, and one that should be followed. No one should try to "earn" heaven and do the right thing just to "pass the test". They should always strive for goodness, love, etc. because it's the right thing to do.
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rugz
New Member
Posts: 24
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Heaven
Feb 5, 2010 2:04:39 GMT -5
Post by rugz on Feb 5, 2010 2:04:39 GMT -5
Is there anybody in this world can prove that heaven exist? Since from the beginning, all we know are just hearsay. And how about hell? Anybody knows where is heaven and hell? Some said heaven is in the sky. Some said heaven is within us. Some said hell is under the ground. I think its just faith that made those things. For me, there no such thing as heaven and hell. There's no such thing as angel and demons. For me, there is only good and bad. If you done good, then you are good, not an angel.
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kepi
New Member
Posts: 9
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Heaven
Feb 5, 2010 18:46:58 GMT -5
Post by kepi on Feb 5, 2010 18:46:58 GMT -5
I know but if heaven is the world you live in forever after you die that would mean god made life as just a "test"
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Heaven
Feb 5, 2010 21:36:40 GMT -5
Post by Josh on Feb 5, 2010 21:36:40 GMT -5
I wouldn't say a "test", but more of a "choice". Life has a purpose and meaning. What we do with it is our choice. If we choose to follow God, then he may bless us with eternal paradise in heaven.
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rugz
New Member
Posts: 24
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Heaven
Feb 17, 2010 6:07:21 GMT -5
Post by rugz on Feb 17, 2010 6:07:21 GMT -5
Heaven is the reason why extremist kill people. They said that the more people(enemy) you killed, the more you goes to heaven and the more virgins will satify your lust. And the innocent killed? they will also go to heaven(I don't know if virgins will be also provided to them). ;D ;D ;D
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Heaven
Feb 17, 2010 19:52:25 GMT -5
Post by Sandy Pines on Feb 17, 2010 19:52:25 GMT -5
It depends what heaven you're talking about. There are many made up religions that reach out to people for a 'different heaven' (not the heaven Christians profess). If you're talking about Christian extremists killing people to make them or you to go to heaven, I would have to respectfully disagree with you. Killing people doesn't get you or them to heaven. There's only one way to heaven, which is what we believe to be asking for forgiveness for our sins and believing in the resurrection.
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rugz
New Member
Posts: 24
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Heaven
Feb 18, 2010 9:03:59 GMT -5
Post by rugz on Feb 18, 2010 9:03:59 GMT -5
I'm sorry. I mean muslim extremists. If heaven exist, there should only be one. Muslim Allah, christian god the father, jews yahweh, etc., are just the same. So, there should be only one heaven. But I want to say, in going there, every religion have different ways. And you may say that your way is the right way, and others will also say they are the only one that can go into heaven. Oh my, if all of you are right, who will go to hell?
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Heaven
Feb 18, 2010 18:21:39 GMT -5
Post by Sandy Pines on Feb 18, 2010 18:21:39 GMT -5
I'm sorry. I mean muslim extremists. If heaven exist, there should only be one. Muslim Allah, christian god the father, jews yahweh, etc., are just the same. So, there should be only one heaven. But I want to say, in going there, every religion have different ways. And you may say that your way is the right way, and others will also say they are the only one that can go into heaven. Oh my, if all of you are right, who will go to hell? There are two points that I would like to make in this post. 1.) Facts 2.) Faith You may say that faith and facts are contradictory, but they aren't quite. For one, you may do research yourself about different religions to come to your conclusion about what one you think is right (which personally I found Christianity to fit the facts and it seems the most reasonable). Find what fits the evidence better. Once you find the most reasonable conclusion, you also must have faith that what you believe in is real - along with the facts (if that makes any sense). I'm not saying that it takes works to enter the kingdom of heaven, however, because if it took works then people would be able to brag about their salvation. If salvation is given by the Grace of God alone, then it definitely should not be bragged about.
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rugz
New Member
Posts: 24
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Heaven
Feb 25, 2010 22:56:33 GMT -5
Post by rugz on Feb 25, 2010 22:56:33 GMT -5
You may say that faith and facts are contradictory, but they aren't quite.I don't think we should mix faith and fact. For me, faith is faith and don't have fact, it's all in the mind that resulted to actions. I been to middle east for quite a long time. I lived in Iraq and Kuwait for 4 years, that was before, during and after Iraq invasion of Kuwait. I was also in Dubai, India and some countries in South East Asia. I lived in Algeria for more than a year. The last country I was was Israel, I stayed there for 6 months. What I mean is that I met a lot of different people, of different religion, of different views. I'll tell you what I know and learned from them, on my next post.
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Heaven
Mar 5, 2010 17:33:40 GMT -5
Post by thebandit on Mar 5, 2010 17:33:40 GMT -5
If you're interpeting Heaven to be the Muslim version of Heaven, you're wrong. Heaven is paradise, free of suffering, guilt, and evil. Extemist Muslims believe that if you die murdering innocent people for the "cause" of "their" religion, you'll go to "Heaven". For example, the terrorist "martyrs", who flew the planes into the World Trade Center, thought they were doing an awesome thing. They have sick mindsets.
You take one of the Christian martyrs. St. Perpetua died in the Roman Coliseum because she was a Christian, but she didn't die killing people. They killed her. It was her self-sacrifice because she refused to give up her religion. She surely has gone to the true Heaven.
If you compare the two "Heavens", only the "Christian" one makes sense. Heaven has also been revealed through God's word.
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ali
New Member
Posts: 20
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Heaven
May 18, 2010 18:33:29 GMT -5
Post by ali on May 18, 2010 18:33:29 GMT -5
I don't see Heaven as a reward for how we've lived. You could live a terrible life, but in the end if you're saved by Christ, you go to Heaven. The reason we're stuck on Earth without God is because we have these bonds of flesh, our bodies and our human minds. When we die, we're released of both. Because of the fact that Christ has sacrificed himself to make us clean, we have no sin. Our complete lack of sin gives us the ability to be in God's presence, therefore we go to Heaven. For me it's just logic. What separates us from God? Sin. What makes us free of sin? Christ and death. So when we die, we're no longer separated from God. Unless we haven't accepted Jesus' sacrifice, in which case we would still have sin after death and would go to Hell. It's not a matter of God not accepting you, it's the fact that sin literally cannot be in God's presence. It's impossible.
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Heaven
May 19, 2010 19:35:14 GMT -5
Post by thebandit on May 19, 2010 19:35:14 GMT -5
I don't see Heaven as a reward for how we've lived. You could live a terrible life, but in the end if you're saved by Christ, you go to Heaven. The reason we're stuck on Earth without God is because we have these bonds of flesh, our bodies and our human minds. When we die, we're released of both. Because of the fact that Christ has sacrificed himself to make us clean, we have no sin. Our complete lack of sin gives us the ability to be in God's presence, therefore we go to Heaven. For me it's just logic. What separates us from God? Sin. What makes us free of sin? Christ and death. So when we die, we're no longer separated from God. Unless we haven't accepted Jesus' sacrifice, in which case we would still have sin after death and would go to Hell. It's not a matter of God not accepting you, it's the fact that sin literally cannot be in God's presence. It's impossible. A definition of Heaven that I like is: Heaven is the intimate union with God. But we have to obtain that unity by being God's faithful servant. You say that the reason that we are on Earth and separate from God is that we have "bonds of flesh, our bodies and our human minds." God created us; as humans, He created us both body and soul. The flesh is not bad. It is good, for God would not create something that is bad. But He gave us free will, and because Adam fell, we became sinful, and receive temptations from the mind and flesh. Christ promised in the Scriptures that we would rise on the last day. Thus He had promised that as He rised body and soul from the dead by His almighty power, so will we, meaning, our bodies, rise from the dead, to be reunited forever with our souls. Everyone. The "faithful" and the "evil". The faithful enjoy Heaven and the evil suffer in Hell for all eternity. Although Christ died for us, we still sin. It's human inclination to sin. That is why we deny the flesh, so to do the will of God. We could not enter Heaven without Christ's Blood. But we have to cooperate with His will also. You can't live a horrible life, let's say you're a terrorist, killing thousands of people in your life, and then say, "Oh, I believe in God," and then expect to go to Heaven. You have to repent, and make satisfaction for your sins. God is all-loving, but He is also all-just, and His justice is demanding. You have to live your life for Him. Christ said, "Love the Lord your God with thy whole heart, and thy whole soul, and thy whole mind, and thy whole strength; and love thy neighbor as thyself." Jesus did not die and then rise and ascend into Heaven just to leave us here to say "I believe in You, so I will be saved." We have to live like Him. Be like Him.
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Heaven
May 19, 2010 20:08:59 GMT -5
Post by Sandy Pines on May 19, 2010 20:08:59 GMT -5
Just an addition to this statement,
Even the devil and all his demons believe in God and yet they're not going to heaven. This proves to us that it takes more than just 'believing' in God to enter the kingdom of heaven. Not by works, but by asking God to come into our lives to save our lives and transform them to live for His will.
So really, terrorists wouldn't enter the kingdom of heaven (more than likely) because they haven't put down their life for God and asked for forgiveness for their sins. They probably believe in God, or a god (false God) and they believe that they'll have a great afterlife that is self satisfying of sinful acts.
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Heaven
May 21, 2010 14:29:51 GMT -5
Post by thebandit on May 21, 2010 14:29:51 GMT -5
Bravo, Sandy Pines! ;D
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