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Post by Sandy Pines on Feb 2, 2010 17:42:09 GMT -5
Among us Christians and Scientists, the origin of our universe is strongly debated. I have created a thread here to debate each of our standpoints
Remember to respect each others views, even if it is against yours.
Debate below, I will post some comments in a little while.
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Post by Sandy Pines on Feb 2, 2010 17:58:45 GMT -5
This information comes from www.big-bang-theory.com/Out of this paragraph, my first comment goes out to the sentence: "Prior to that moment there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe." In a Scientific standpoint, this sentence is already contradictory to general science laws. As we know today, life only comes from life. Babies come from humans, dogs have puppies, etc. Humans and puppies don't randomly pop into the air, so how could have our universe? This website explains in a paragraph below that the first thing that came into existence in our universe was a black hole which in turn created an explosion which created our universe. According to this website, it is impossible for black holes to form on their own without anything to be in existence first. In a Christian perspective, according to the references that I have provided God fits the evidence better. It's easier to believe that God created the world in 6 days, resting on the 7th, then to believe that a random black hole came into existence randomly (when we know that is impossible). This is all I have to say for now. I might add more later.
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Post by Josh on Feb 3, 2010 2:19:13 GMT -5
The basis for the argument of God is the beginning of everything. Where else would it have come from? Something can't come from nothing. It makes no sense scientifically, or logically.
Unless you include God in the picture. Or even if some people don't want to use the word "God", something not of this world with all power had to have created it.
I have been asked so many times to prove that God exists. Of course, I can't ask them to prove that he doesn't exist, because it isn't possible to prove that something does not exist. However, if God did not create the universe, I then ask them to prove something that should be able to be proved: prove that science created the universe. Prove that science made something come from nothing. If it was not Science, then what was it? Everything points to a Creator...
If they cannot prove that Science created the Universe, why should we have to prove to them that God created the universe?
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Post by Sandy Pines on Feb 3, 2010 17:27:25 GMT -5
I agree with your statements. The Big Bang Theory is contradictory to even Science, so why do people hold on so strong to this Theory? It is more than likely that they don't want to live under God and change their lives to live for him instead of themselves.
Anyone else have comments to add? I may add some more in a bit if I find anything interesting to comment on.
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rugz
New Member
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Post by rugz on Feb 5, 2010 8:22:08 GMT -5
Big Bang theory were just an assumption. It was not proven that it happened. If talk about god, there's no need to prove that god made this word. It is the bible that said god made this earth, then it is the bible that should be proven that what are written there are true.
Science made assumption and finding facts follows. But in religion, all are hearsay.
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batman
New Member
Vengance or Justice?
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Post by batman on Feb 5, 2010 23:56:12 GMT -5
This is one thing that always gets my goat. The debate over Science versus religion. To me its quite simple. Gods day are a bit longer then ours. And evolution took a long time. I believe that we did evolve and that it was God who evolved us. If we came out of the slime like scientists claim it was God himself that set it into motion. I do not believe that every word in the bible is to be taken literally. first of some of the languages it is translated into don`t even have words which can be translated. I knew a fellow from Africa that thought freedom meant Leisure. He couldn`t understand why Americans were so lazy and why we wanted to lay around and do nothing all the time. He was quite impressed when I explained Freedom was not leisure. And our bible has been translated and interpreted so often that I am sure certain words and meanings have been changed or obscured. What I think is that God created man through evolution and that all of Gods creatures evolved to what they are today. Debate and argument are a waste of time. Believe in the simplicity of the message of Christ. Thats the ticket. What does it matter if "poof", Adam suddenly appeared or if he evolved to be the first sentient man? What matters is that God sent his son to die on the cross and save our souls and that believing that is all God asks of us.
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Post by littlebopeep on Feb 7, 2010 22:12:58 GMT -5
The problem with both the Big Bang Theory and evolution is that they are both theories, but are taught as if they are fact. And again, as has basically been said, the Big Bang Theory contradicts science - order does not come out of disorder.....
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rugz
New Member
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Post by rugz on Feb 18, 2010 9:54:40 GMT -5
Big bang is a theory, but evolution is not. Evolution is happenning right now. The best example are the viruses and bacteria that surround you, they are evolving to different strain, or something like that. Or some sort of cross-breeding of animals or humans. That's part of evolution.
I would like to ask question. In creation, it said that god created man, and that's Adam. And Eve was made from Adam. If we follow from generations to generations from Adam and Eve down to the last, or maybe, down to the present, it comes out that Adam and Eve are WHITES. My question is, where were the other races came from? The BLACKS, the BROWNS and YELLOWS were also just popping up from nowhere? Or maybe, they are also the result of evolution?
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Post by Sandy Pines on Feb 18, 2010 18:34:55 GMT -5
It depends what type of evolution you are talking about. Microevolution is definitely happening right now (evolution of genetics), but macroevolution we do not see happening today (random organisms free willing-reproducing with other random completely unrelated organisms making a whole new organism, tracing back to a common ancestor). I would also disagree about your statement about evolution. Certain types of Evolution are theories because it isn't totally agreed upon even in the scientific realm. It is a highly controversial topic. Macroevolution, for instance, can't be proven by just out of curiosity, like the law of gravity can (hence it being hotly debated = not considered fact) This may or may not have anything to do with this, but here's a good article on Creationism Vs. Evolution. www.clarifyingchristianity.com/creation.shtmlIt would be impossible to trace down all generations due to the global flood. Everybody but a few select people were killed (the story of Noah and the Ark), we aren't given enough evidence or enough names to possibly conclude all generations. It is likely that Adam and Eve were white, however. I would agree that different skin colors are a result of m icroevolution (evolution of genetics). Over time people had to adapt to their surroundings (such as darker skinned people had to adapt to very hot conditions, hence having a darker skin color).
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rugz
New Member
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Post by rugz on Feb 25, 2010 22:25:51 GMT -5
I learn a lot here. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Sandy Pines on Feb 26, 2010 18:16:47 GMT -5
I'm glad you are learning and enjoying yourself here. Just to make an addition to my last post: I'd like to make it clear that Microevolution is the evolution of genetics within a particular species. This type of evolution stays in a particular species only and doesn't cross transfer to a different species (such as a cow to bird) because that would turn into macroevolution. Not sure if that was clear or not in my last post, thought I'd clarify that.
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Post by Daniel on Mar 3, 2010 17:53:16 GMT -5
The basis for the argument of God is the beginning of everything. Where else would it have come from? Something can't come from nothing. It makes no sense scientifically, or logically. What about God Josh? God always was is now and will be forever...? right? Maybe everything always was is now and will be forever...? right? (not my views, just thought that I'd throw it out there) good luck refuting!
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Post by Sandy Pines on Mar 4, 2010 18:19:39 GMT -5
The basis for the argument of God is the beginning of everything. Where else would it have come from? Something can't come from nothing. It makes no sense scientifically, or logically. What about God Josh? God always was is now and will be forever...? right? Maybe everything always was is now and will be forever...? right? (not my views, just thought that I'd throw it out there) good luck refuting! God has definitely been forever and always be forever because then he wouldn't really be 'God' then. I say this because the Bible backs it up. Everything wasn't always here, other than God, because it is clear in Genesis that God created the universe and everything in it. It is also made clear in Revelations that God will destroy the current world we live in now and create new heaven and a new earth. I never remember reading anywhere that God would actually destroy the whole universe and make it from scratch, however which may support your theory that the universe will last forever. I'm not stating that as fact, though.
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Post by Daniel on Mar 5, 2010 10:17:21 GMT -5
What about God Josh? God always was is now and will be forever...? right? Maybe everything always was is now and will be forever...? right? (not my views, just thought that I'd throw it out there) good luck refuting! God has definitely been forever and always be forever because then he wouldn't really be 'God' then. I say this because the Bible backs it up. Everything wasn't always here, other than God, because it is clear in Genesis that God created the universe and everything in it. It is also made clear in Revelations that God will destroy the current world we live in now and create new heaven and a new earth. I never remember reading anywhere that God would actually destroy the whole universe and make it from scratch, however which may support your theory that the universe will last forever. I'm not stating that as fact, though. Good Will, but what if I do not believe in the Bible? (Like I said these are not my views, just a debate) What if I said that my "Bible" says that in the begining when the earth always was, and the universe will always be man spontaniously appeared out of mud. I spose you see my point. You nor I can prove that there is a God, or a higher being of some sort. It makes sense, but the "higher being" could just be the earth. That is why we need faith. You cannot prove God always was and made all things good.
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Post by paul3101 on Mar 9, 2010 17:59:25 GMT -5
I have just watched an interesing program about the big bang theory and it came up with some surprising revelations. Although the program was only an hour long and was simplistic in it's explanations so that the likes of me could understand it, the main theme of the show was to question the theory in its entirety. Basically what cosmologists and physicists do is to convert the entire process down to a mathematical equation known as the standard formula. However there are some things they cannot explain so in essence they "invented" some things like Dark Matter and Dark Energy, so that it will enable the formula to make sense. The problem arises when you hear that both Dark Mater and dark Energy are invisible and undetectable so therer can never be proof that they even exist, but the consenus among most cosmologists and physicisys is that they must exist to enabel the formula to work. Now please don't think I am chamioning the creationist theory either as I have no particular religious belief and there is far too much scientific evidence to suggest that evolution didnt happen to some extent and besides that the Adam and Eve theory actually makes me baulk, as if that were remotely true then there would have been some serious cases of incest taking place in order the human race to expand. But what I do find slightly hypocritical is the science fraternity mocking those who have faith in God, a being whose existance can never have any tangible proof when they are doing the same with their Dark Matter/Dark Energy theories just so a mathematical formula will work. So in conclusion I guess I am sitting firmly on the fence as far as how the universe was created, although I still lay slightly on the scientific version, although there are still too many anomolies in their arguments to say theirs is the whole truth. But for all we actually know a "greater power" may indeed have lit a rhetorical fuse which started the whole chain reactions. I apologise for not coming down firmly on the side of one or other arguments but there are too many holes in boths theories.
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